codfish's picture

Scorpion fish (added via Android)

Observed: 21st October 2013 By: codfishcodfish’s reputation in Fish
Photo 1
Description:

20 cm long

Identifications
Species interactions

No interactions present.

Comments

codfish's picture

Thanks nightfly. I agree with

Thanks nightfly. I agree with your id.

Codfish

nightfly's picture

Hi Codfish, They are very

Hi Codfish,

They are very similar these 2 species, the small white barbel is probably the best feature to look for as its only on Tb. When it comes to a photo its not always clear to see especially on a fish that isnt in water as described above. There are some other differences in the no.s of rays in the fins and the shapes of the fins but again tricky detail as fins can be collapsed and if not erect and viewed in perfect profile then difficult to use for IDing. Thankully on your Sea Scorpion the all important barbel is visible- just about.

Cathal.

trudy-russell's picture

Agree. Just had to check Kay

Agree. Just had to check Kay and Dipper's A Field Guide to the Marine Fishes of Wales and Adjacent Waters (I know location isn't that close to Wales by water but it is a very good guide!) to be sure. Also called in on another good resource - http://species-identification.org/. This site has the fin ray numbers for identification purposes. This is a very good image for this purpose - here's the link to the Long-Spined Sea Scorpion - http://species-identification.org/species.php?species_group=fnam&id=2162... - try matching their ID to the photo in terms of the number of rays in the dorsal (primary and secondary), anal and pectoral fins. The only other possibility was the Norway Bullhead but that is a much smaller fish than this.

Trudy Russell
Marine Advisor
Natural England

To find out about what's going on in the south west check out http://www.ispot.org.uk/forum/8409

nightfly's picture

Hi Trudy,I would be very

Hi Trudy,

Thanks for the agreement.
Is there any chance you could link me to any images of Norway Bullhead? I tried looking several times and got nothing other than a line drawing and a crude one at that it my memory serves me correctly. It doesnt seem to be a much photographed species.

The overall appearance of this one suggested Tb and I was relieved to see the barbel was actually visible despite being stuck to the base of the lip.

The shape of the front dorsal always seems to be very much like a rectangle on Tb, quite a flat top to it, I think there's more of a hump on it in M.s. For me the shape of the front dorsal on Tb is a very useful way to recognise it but it must be up and taut, thankfully these fish have a tendency to stiffen up and hold their fins out.

I'd love to see a small Ms beside an average Tb for comparison. Have found umpteen Tb in rockpools but the only Ms I have seen are in anglers photos, they are stunning fish. If I have caught an Ms it was when I was much younger and I didnt know there was more than one species involved.

Cathal.

trudy-russell's picture

I did a search for

I did a search for Micrenophrys lilljeborgii and came up with this http://www.fiskipedia.no/node/187#.UojCE3DIZBE. Hopefully your Norwegian is good; Google Translate has a reasonable stab at it if you are using Google Chrome. But yes, not much in the way of images. My impression is that these are typically no larger than 7.5 cm.

Trudy Russell
Marine Advisor
Natural England

To find out about what's going on in the south west check out http://www.ispot.org.uk/forum/8409

nightfly's picture

Thanks very much for the link

Thanks very much for the link Trudy, thats the first good image of the species Ive seen. Its quite like Tb. It would be nice to see a good clear shot of the smaller barbel for comparison to that of Tb's barbel. I cant see it in these pics. Must have a go at the translation, thanks again for linkng that.

Cathal.

nightfly's picture

Hi Trudy, Can you help me

Hi Trudy,

Can you help me understand the fin ray counts as they are given here in your link. Specifically, what 'A' and 'P' refer to?

http://species-identification.org/species.php?species_group=fnam&id=2162...

Anterior and Posterior dorsal fins perhaps? Just want to be sure so that I might refer to fin ray counts in future when dealing with fish out of water where it is hard to see the presence of the mouth barbel.

Also, what is 'D VII-X + 10-14'?

What is '1.1. 29-33'?

Thanks,

Cathal.

nightfly's picture

Given the distribution for

Given that the distribution for Norway Bullhead includes all of the north western British Isles in this link ( http://www.fiskipedia.no/node/187#.VDELBxYyfIV ) it begs the question, are some of the really miniature Taurulus bubalis I have found in rockpools actually Norway Bullhead?

The presence of a mouth barbel may indicate they are TB but I havent read anywhere yet that Norway Bullhead does not have a mouth barbel and photos for checking the feature are in short supply.

Thanks again,

Cathal.