ABK's picture

Pipefish

Observed: 25th August 2013 By: ABKABK’s reputation in Fish
Lesser Pipefish
Pipefish measurements
Description:
Identifications
Species interactions

No interactions present.

Comments

dejayM's picture

Notes

Andy, a good, clear picture but I cannot agree yet.
I'd be very interested in more comment from you - some ID notes and location or environmental ones. I'm really interested to know how you achieved your ID (even though you are not certain)
Take a look here at Trudy's relevant and very valuable ID Comments -
http://www.ispot.org.uk/node/362390

ABK's picture

Thanks for comments. I netted

Thanks for comments. I netted it in about 2ft of water over a sandy bottom. I narrowed it down to either Lesser or Greater on general appearance (snout length/shape). After that I have to admit it is just an educated guess for Lesser partly based on its length 7-8cm (although it could obviously be a younger specimen of a bigger species). Have read the ID notes on the link you supplied and I find it hard to decide exactly where the head and snout begin and end.

trudy-russell's picture

I think I agree, but always

I think I agree, but always wary of agreeing if im not completely sure the expert badge gives my ideas a lot of weight! The colour pattern seems correct also I have looked at the head size and it is exactly the same proportions as the one I explained fully in the link above so that would suggest they are the same species. However I have never seen this species in real life so always wary of saying anything more than it might be this

Trudy Russell
Marine Advisor
Natural England

To find out about what's going on in the south west check out http://www.ispot.org.uk/forum/8409

trudy-russell's picture

I went for anything below the

I went for anything below the eyes is snout, but this is very much an educated guess rather than being sure!

Trudy Russell
Marine Advisor
Natural England

To find out about what's going on in the south west check out http://www.ispot.org.uk/forum/8409

ChrisMcA's picture

I have definitions, from eg

I have definitions, from eg http://species-identification.org/species.php?species_group=fnam&id=2203...
where all blue terms are defined
SNOUT is from tip of head to front of eye, & HEAD is from tip of snout to posterior end of gillcover.

dejayM's picture

ratios

All very well, I am discovering, IF the fish is adult and always the same size.
I wonder if it would be reasonable to look at ratios - you know snout 3%, head 8%, sort of thing..
I find this - "Snout: the region from the tip of the head to the front of the eye...compressed laterally, its length more than half head length, usually deepest in front and with a distinct median dorsal ridge..." rather daunting. But then, measuring ratios on a wriggling, suffocating small fish in the cold winds of, even, The Mumbles must be quite challenging.
Andy, what we all need is closer, scaled pictures of parts of the whole body. I ALWAYS think of that far too late and ALWAYS miss the key features for a perfect ID!

dejayM's picture

ratios

Simply, annoyingly, (was) a duplicate. Sorry.

dejayM's picture

good show

Well...!
Jolly good show Andy (annotated pic). There's NO excuses now for anyone.
Well done. I'll agree quite soon!
ðerek

dejayM's picture

Ins and outs

I am far from qualified to give a precise opinion but these below are from the web.
I have marked thus >> those two which fit your new photo and description.
It seems that Syngnathus rostellatus might be ruled out due to relative length of snout, being, in the photo, MORE than half the head length.

Nerophis lumbriciformis (No head/snout detail -British Isles, Atlantic coasts)
Nerophis maculatus (Mediterranean and adjacent Atlantic including Portugal and the Azores)
Nerophis ophidon (No head/snout detail - British Isles and Atlantic coasts)
Syngnathus abaster (Mediterranean and Black Seas, also Atlantic coast northward to southern Biscay)
>>Syngnathus acus (Snout length more than half head length - the British Isles, Atlantic coasts)<<
Syngnathus phlegon (Mediterranean Sea and adjacent Atlantic coasts, mostly in western Mediterranean)
Syngnathus rostellatus (Snout length less than half head length - southerly portions of British Isles and Atlantic coasts from Bergen )<<
Syngnathus schmidti (Black Sea and Sea of Azov)
Syngnathus taenionotus (north-western Adriatic Sea (Venice-S. Benedetto del Tronto))
Syngnathus tenuirostris (southern Adriatic Sea, Black Sea and Sea of Azov, also reported from Lipari Is., Tyrrhenian Sea)
>>Syngnathus typhle (Snout compressed laterally, its length more than half head length, usually deepest in front and with a distinct median dorsal ridge - British Isles )<<
Syngnathus variegatus (Black Sea and Sea of Azov)
All from http://species-identification.org/species.php?species_group=fnam&menuent...

It has the look of Syngnathus typhle which is notable for its "broad" snout (Broadnosed pipefish) - worth an ID try but DON'T take my word for it!
Syngnathus acus (Great pipefish) can only be ruled out by someone else!