colinlamond's picture


Observed: 31st July 2013 By: colinlamondcolinlamond’s reputation in Invertebratescolinlamond’s reputation in Invertebratescolinlamond’s reputation in Invertebratescolinlamond’s reputation in Invertebrates
Species interactions

No interactions present.


dejayM's picture


It'd be nice, Colin (WLO), if you could say why you think, specially, T. arcuata, though I see you were racing to beat Chris!
Could you put up a note please?

Wildlife Ranger's picture

Etiquette Please

Hello Derek

Please contribute and not criticise

The basis of all posts is on imaging keying and arriving at a conclusion on experience

Best wishes



British Sawflies (Hymenoptera: Symphyta): a key to adults of the genera occurring in Britain Wright , Adam

chrisbrooks's picture


Just to act as a mediator here, we appreciate Colin that you are experienced in these matters and your ID was one I considered until I read somewhere that there were confusion species and you know me I always err on the side of caution.

I think all Derek was asking was whether there was any features that point to T. arcuata specifically.

Wildlife Ranger's picture


Likewise Chris - And in fact was about to close the ob on certainty By adding Tenthredo Sp when I noticed you had already done so 2. inherit in the confidence limit It is likely this but I cant be certain Speaks for itself , On the basis of all visible features on the image and in the absence of some the image using Aidgap Keys I arrived at arcuata . However if a keying sequence was reproduced on every post at the time of posting there would be no ID 's made ! People disagree with Obs all the time

Where I take particularly offence was Dereks suggestion on competition as I am sure you appreciate one spends the time for the love of nature


dejayM's picture


Neatly said but I've been misread, quite improperly perhaps.
There is no way YOU could tell you were racing with Chris until after you pressed the return key (59 secs later) - it was a light-hearted (observant) remark - honest, so forgive me PLEASE.
I am not here to criticise - I am far too junior and old.

I often write 'cannot agree yet', like in this very post because I have no experience and I have to research first, I always come back and agree when I can - always. I usually ONLY engage with posts that are already full of informative comment or excellent pictures.
I was about to post a Tenthredo arcuata close lookalike. I was 'put right' weeks ago regarding IDing sawflies ("can't be done from a photo").
So I was wondering, Colin (WLO), how you came to be so nearly certain and hoped you might lead me to an ID key or say 'it's simple because of the five following ID points' or, well, anything except take've done both. Sorry
grovellingly departs left..

Wildlife Ranger's picture


No problem Derek . I have had a long day fund raising for wood on our reserve so I apologise for my short fuse. Its all a learning curve for everyone Derek , and i'd be the first to admit I can get it wrong . Its all about having a go and having fun even if we do get it wrong we have enough experts to put it right I am sure :-) . I do agree it would be great to have the time to leave notes on all observations but I try to balance agreement , observations encouragements and general help. I think the Confidence level was Its likely this but i can not be certain ( which differs from "so nearly certain" I was about to close the Ob with Tenthredo I am sure as I can be , when I found Chris had assigned it, and it would be poor etiquette for me to supercede his finding with mine . It is a tough call separating these three species but it is possible to glean some keying points from the image admitedly acquiring further ID points would have helped resulting in some form of more rigid objective assessment.

Please stick with the Entomology and i-spot Derek as it has much to offer and you are quite right to ask for evidence to support a conclusion we all should do it .It is an interesting point that you raise How robust are all of the T, arcuata , observations on i-spot Please keep the obs and ids coming

Best Wishes


Foot Notes

Female arcuata has usually a basal antennal segment marked yellow notha and brevicornis usually have black antennal segment in female. schaefferi rare

dejayM's picture


That's well said, C, and I accept the challenge regarding six the legged. I do have some remote support and will, in due course, begin my quest and hope you will respond.
In the meantime, when you've time, move out of your comfort zone and spend a mo here -