I have a few ideas but am very interested to see what others think.
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Hi Rachey Ramon – I’m thinking smoothed leaf or Huntingdon, and have added my suggestions in now. I will be very interested to see what other people think as well. Thanks for kicking off the debate!
Huntingdon Elm (Ulmus glabra x minor = U. x vegeta)
Stace gives your designation (above) as a synonym
...if you had put up either an ID or a comment saying that you thought it likely to be either Smooth-leaved or Huntingdon "because of the leaf having a distinct pointed tip", or whatever other reasons you may have had.
You don't lose points for putting up an ID that proves to be wrong, you know.
If you were very unsure, and wanted to see what others thought, then you might have waited for more than one ID to arrive before putting up your own.
I now feel that mine is wrong, and I am sorry that mine "trumps" yours, until such time as someone else agrees with one of yours, or puts up something else.
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And a surprise appearance from a Shieldbug as well. Sorry can't help with the tree ID.
Edit - Sorry I should have added that it appears to be a Hawthorn Shieldbug.
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...little shieldbug, and refrained from commenting in a cowardly way, as I wasn't at all sure what type of shield bug it was!
...as my "comment" was written after Rose put up her IDs but before she made her kind comment!
....for Huntingdon Elm is described as "more than 5mm long" and, despite the interruption of your friendly little shield-bug, it does not appear to be that long.
So on balance, I would say it's more likely to be Smooth-leaved Elm.
Of course, they are all subject to hybridisation....
I’m Sorry Rachey Ramon, didn’t intend to offend or upset you. :-)
I know I don’t lose points, but I don’t see this as a competition but a discussion (but I understand some people do have a competitive streak when it comes to ID! ;-)
I have been discussing it with some colleague in my department, and we only just whittled it down and so I added the 2 possible suggestions we have come up with…..
I had no idea myself! And I am still very unsure even after discussing it.
I have sent the photos onto some other organisations as well (Elm project and my local WT colleagues).
I think Its a Hawthorn Shield bug, who snuck in on the action!
See, I'm impressed that you know what type of bug it is!
Don't worry, I'm not upset, there is an inevitable delay between typing and uploading a comment (especially when the person waffles on as much as I do) which means people sometimes post IDs, comments, etc in the meantime.
And in this case, I admit it, I kinda wanted to be first with an ID. *blushes and hangs head in shame*
....that I should have looked a little more carefully at the leaves.
I really am appreciating your suggestions and ideas and reasons (like I said I just don’t know). I do have some more photos I could add on of more leafs with ruler, might this help you?
Glad your impressed with my bug ID ;-)
Well, it's always a good idea to put as many photos as reasonably possibly, although I do think that you chose a very good selection (ie tree, bark, twig, leaf, leaf-with-ruler), and I don't think anyone could ask for more.
Maybe best to hang on to see what others think, and to see how the "voting" goes.
I'm off out now, I'll look forward to checking in tomorrow to see the results!
Stace says: "an extremely difficult genus"
Pedicel length - no information
Rust coloured hairs on buds? I do not see any (just pixels).
Leaf length x width; leaf size > 70 mm (yes)
Leaf width/length ; acuminate apex to leaf
Number of pairs of lateral veins
Tree outline branches strong at all levels (yes)
I came to no clear conclusion except "an extremely difficult genus".
i agree "an extremely difficult genus".
Thanks for the comments: What Elm are these ID features for that you mention above?
I will look into the hairs on buds.
These are some of the characters in the key given by Stace.
I could not follow it to a successful conclusion with your observation.
Important point: "Only leaves from the middle of shoots in high summer should be used". This may explain the difficulty.
Ahhhh right ok then – I was just thinking this might be one to follow up again in the summer! Thanks.
No one has mentioned the extraordinary fact that this is a BIG elm! THese are so rare nowadays except in Sussex (I believe). How has it escaped Dutch elm disease?
University of Edinburgh and Biodiversity Observatory (OU)
HI Jonathan, it really is a huge tree. The county recorder is coming out to take a look at it this year when it gets into leaf, so hopefully we get a positive ID . We do have a few of them around the county of this size.
I was discussing with someone about all the large elms appear to be covered in a lot of ivy, who knows perhaps the ivy turns the elm bark beetle off……
Wouldn't that be interesting if it were true!
Does not prove the point but at least a start ...
Another one. How interesting. Of course we do not know whether the elms that died were not covered in ivy. A lot of hedgerow trees would be. Unless someone tested this idea when elm disease struck,I don't think it can be tested now.
This probably doesn't help in this case, but one of my gardens has a row of middle-aged Elms on the boundary, all now dead or dying, and all smothered in ivy.
In their case, ivy has certainly not been any sort of protection.
It does, however, disguise the fact that they are dead until they are utterly dead: and then the weight of the ivy foliage helps them fall over. At which point I have to clear up the mess...
Oh, and they are all still sending up suckers for some distance around, so we have plenty of small elms. All in the wrong place, of course!
The Northamptonshire County Recorder came out last week and took a look at this tree and has identified the tree as Huntingdon elm
A definitive ID. Great. Now you can add it to Treezilla! http://www.Treezilla.org or via the Treezilla Android and iPhone apps
Which is nice to know.
Lat/Lng: 52.3, -0.6
OS grid ref: SP9871