nightfly's picture

Small ichneumon cocoon?

Observed: 15th October 2012 By: nightflynightfly’s reputation in Invertebratesnightfly’s reputation in Invertebratesnightfly’s reputation in Invertebratesnightfly’s reputation in Invertebratesnightfly’s reputation in Invertebrates
13th Oct 12 Fad (9)
13th Oct 12 Fad (6)
13th Oct 12 Fad (1)
Identifications
Species interactions

No interactions present.

Comments

DavidNotton's picture

Good find

will you keep it and post a picture of what emerges? That would confirm and maybe refine the identification.

nightfly's picture

Hi David, I have it in a

Hi David,

I have it in a small box in the garage. Do these things need anything other than oxygen and outdoor temps?

It will be great if this emerges, would you expect it to overwinter at this stage?

Cathal.

DavidNotton's picture

That should be just fine...

That should be just fine, yes since it's a tough looking cocoon, it's likely to overwinter before emerging

nightfly's picture

Ok, will have to wait and

Ok, will have to wait and see. Does the larva of this type of ichneumon eat its host and then leave the host to pupate? Ive seen quite a few emperor moth cocoons containg parasitic cocoons of a similar size to the above thing. They could be tachinids I have seen and not ichneumons, just dont know at this stage.

Cathal.

DavidNotton's picture

tachinids

yes, the larva of the ichneumonid eats the host (probably a caterpillar) and the makes its cocoon. Emperor moth cocoons often contain tachinids, usually two, the larvae are parasitoids on the emperor moth larva, when the tachinid larvae emerge they form puparia (the pupa contained in the hardened skin of the last larval instar) not a cocoon, tachinids don't make cocoons so far as a I know.

nightfly's picture

Not sure what parasitised

Not sure what parasitised those emperors then David. There were definitely small cocoons in there and quite a few. Maybe something more like a braconid in that case- have seen the drawings in books of bundles of little braconid surrounding the host. I have pics up here somewhere, I will link them.

Ok think Ive got that, they use that old exuviae thats always in there?

Thanks.

Cathal.

DavidNotton's picture

if more than two

if more than two them probably a hymenopteran rather than a tachinid. Braconid definite possibility. Yes do post as a separate observation.

nightfly's picture

David I have some images of

David I have some images of what I described above here:

http://www.ispot.org.uk/node/251246

Not enough attention was given to it at the time, the small cocoons should have been taken out photographed, measured and counted. I think you have already seen and commented on this.

Cathal.